Land Petitions for Pontiac County: A brief How To!

January 22, 2015

Quebec genealogy is a challenge and it has taken me a long time to understand it. I would not say I am an expert but somehow I manage to make progress. Genealogical research has improved in Quebec since I started in 1998 studying my Quebec ancestors.  A lot more is now online and on microfilm.

For some reason there is no updated or current book on how to do research in Quebec.  It is extremely difficult to navigate the websites at the archives to find what you are looking for, not to mention that some are only in French.

For translating the French to English, I find that if I open an online translator I can cut and paste the French words into it and get an idea of what they are referring to and then understand it better.

Here is a link to the Wiki at Family Search and if you scroll to the bottom you can find a list that might help with the French.

https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/France_Language_and_Languages

This article which I have featured before was done several years ago and it focuses on Montreal genealogy.  It is all different now.

http://www.nnyacgs.com/beauregard.html

Book: Finding Your Ancestors in English Quebec, by Althea Douglas MA, CG (C), 2001 Book HC02 Heritage Productions.  This may be old at 2001 but still may give some idea of the sources in Quebec for genealogy.

Book: “Finding Your Canadian Ancestors, A Beginner’s Guide,” by Sherry Irvine and David Obee, Ancestry Publishing, 2006. This gives and overview of Quebec research.

Book: “Planning a Genealogical Trip to Montreal,” Paul LeCleric, BA, BSc. Book HC19 Heritage Productions, 2003.  This is helpful but he doesn’t say where to go to find the records.

LAND GRANTS

Today’s topic is land grants.  You can approach finding your ancestors by looking at the book form of the index or going to an online index.

Before I try to make some sense of it all, we need a little history of land in Quebec. There are three different land registration systems in Quebec.

LAND IN QUEBEC

1.  Seigneury 1626-1795 and discontinued in 1854 and tenants could claim their land (Seigneurial Tenures Act of 1854). Land would be granted to a land owner and they would in turn rent to tenants. They were usually established along major waterways. These are with the BAnQ and its research centres and in the Parchemin Notarial database 1626-1794 at the BAnQ.

This article about seigneuries at Canada in the Making is very good.

http://www.canadiana.ca/citm/themes/pioneers/pioneers3_e.html#seigneurial

Chronicles of American also a good article on seigneuries:

http://www.chroniclesofamerica.com/french/seigneur_of_new_france.htm

Richard Colebrook Harris’s book: The Seigneurial System in Early Canada, A Geographical Study is on online at Google Books as a preview.

A good use of the Google search engine can bring up a lot of history of the seigneury system in Quebec.  I have yet to find a listing of who own them through the years.  Can anyone help me, if so leave a comment and link.

2.  Township 1763 – 1890 this did not replace the seigneury and are the Upper and Lower Land Grants and Letters Patent.

My patents were obtained by Danny Bouchard a member of APG and the researcher whom I hired to help me get ready for my first trip to Ontario and Quebec in 2012.  He obtained these from the Ministry of Justice:

http://www.lettresfoncieres.justice.gouv.qc.ca/fr/pages/presentation.html

Danny writes: The Registre Foncier is the land registry and it is run by the Ministry of Natural Resources. It is quite complex and not user-friendly and goes back to about 1841.  The database is very picky to use and you must have the exact location of the land to find your ancestor. This is a government website and it is not free.

3. Cadastral started 1830 and is currently being used.  I visited Campbell’s Bay’s Palais du Justice on my trip in 2012 and was given land records back to 1900 for several people. I was trying to get back into the 1800’s and discovered to late that the clerk only got me back to 1900. I may have to go for those records at the Land Registry site which I have yet to conquer. However, based on an email from Danny I think he had the same problem?

He writes again: For some reason the indexes don’t go back that far. I ran the Lot 43, Range 3 as well and the records start in late 1890’s early 1900’s and go to 1978.

http://www.mern.gouv.qc.ca/foncier/registre/index.jsp

Very interesting and helpful.

http://www.mern.gouv.qc.ca/foncier/registre/registre-systeme.jsp

Go here and scroll down to Quebec Land records for more details at the Quebec Family History Society: http://www.qfhs.ca/facts.php

QUEBEC TIMELINE

The next piece of information is the timeline of Quebec, Canada which covers the different governmental definitions of Canada and you may have to get maps in the different time periods to figure out where your ancestor was located.

Era of Exploration 1508-1613

Colony of Canada 1534-1763 – French Regime

Colony of Quebec 1763-1791 – When Quebec became British.

Lower Canada 1791-1841 was Quebec but boundaries changed.

Canada East 1841-1867 again it was Quebec but watch the boundaries.

Confederation – Province of Quebec 1867 to Present

Note:  See Wikipedia for definitions and timelines in more detail. Remember that the St. Lawrence River flows northeast and that is why you have the Upper (Ontario) and Lower (Quebec) designations.

FINDING LAND PETITIONS IN QUEBEC which lead to the Letters of Patent.

Here is a quick list of ways to find Land grants read all first and then decide on a strategy for your ancestor.  You need the name, page, volume and other information in order to obtain the Letters of patent.

1.  In book form and on microfilm at the Family History Library: List of Land Grant by the Crown in the Province of Quebec from 1763 to 31st December 1890, Argenteuil Co. – Huntington Co., FHL#413121 and Joliette Co.- Yamaska Co., Districts of Quebec, Montreal Alpha Index FHL#413122.  Note these are by geographical area.

I pulled the one for Pontiac County on FHL#413122, Quebec and took photos of what is the photographed book index listing which includes: Name of grantee, number of lots granted, ranges, number of acres, date of letters-patent, Book and page.  It is one way to identify where your ancestor lived and is like a census for it shows the whole township with names.

Beginning of Chichester, Land Grant Index

Beginning of Chichester, Land Grant Index

The Family History Library has more about land records this is just the start scroll to Land: https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=305&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Canada%2C%20Quebec%22

2.  The Quebec Family History Society, in Pointe Claire, Quebec has booklets by alphabet for about $10.00 (2001). Alphabetical Index to the Land Grants by the Crown in the Province of Quebec from 1763 to 31 December 1890. Of course I ordered Booklet M for McDonell and its various spellings. They have a Land Grants database for members only at their library in Pointe-Claire, Quebec.  Wow, I ordered this like 10 years ago.  I still have it.

Booklet: Land Grants by Alphabetical

Booklet: Land Grants by Alphabetical

Here is the post I wrote about my visit to this archive.

Quebec Wanderings: The Quebec Family History Society,” October 2, 2014.

Here is a link on how to research land in Quebec at the QFHS and how to do a pre (before 1867) and post-Confederation Land patent (before 1867) which is very important for Pontiac County.

http://www.qfhs.ca/cpage.php?pt=110

You can get copies of pre-Confederation Letters Patent in person from microfilms at the BAnQ Montreal Archives Centre, 535 avenue Viger est, or by email request to archives.montreal@banq.qc.ca.

The group of post-Confederation letters patent can be found in person at the BAnQ Quebec City Archives Centre, 1012 avenue du Séminaire or by email request to archives.quebec@banq.qc.ca.  

I am not totally convinced this is the correct the address above for post-confederation letters of patent.  There has been a lot of change in Quebec over the last 16 years and things have been consolidated and moved around. Based on Danny’s emails and the fact that the stamp of the Minister of Justice is on my copies of the Letters Patent that he obtained for me I think they are at the Minister of Justice website?

This website of the Federation Genealogical of Quebec may be of help as well.

http://federationgenealogie.qc.ca/sources/archives-foncieres/reperage-des-informations-foncieres

This looks helpful at Open Library:

https://openlibrary.org/books/OL24590742M/Liste_des_terrains_conc%C3%A9d%C3%A9s_par_la_couronne_dans_la_province_de_Qu%C3%A9bec_de_1763_au_31_d%C3%A9cembre_1890

3.  Library and Archives Canada has a Land Petitions Index of Lower Canada (Quebec) from 1764 to 1841 online at:

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/land/land-petitions-lower-canada-1764-1841/Pages/land-petitions-lower-canada.aspx

The index allows you to search using the various spellings of a surname and in my case it is:

MacDonald/McDonell/McDonald/MacDonnell/MacDonell.

The online index gives name, surname, date and some may or may not show an image with lots of pages, I read somewhere it was about 25%.

The unfortunate part is that it only goes up to 1841 and this does not really cover the Pontiac area unless they came before that date.

Don’t forget that they have an index for the Land Petitions for Upper Canada (Ontario) 1763-1865.   This means you need to check for those who settled in Renfrew County and more.  Don’t assume your ancestor has land only in one area, township or province and look out for group petitions.

The Library and Archives Canada has changed their website a great deal since 2012 when I was planning my first trip to Canada.  To find the land records, I would click on Discover the Collection, then click on Genealogy & Family History and it takes you to another menu where you can select what you want.

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Pages/home.aspx

Here is the link directly to the Land information on the Library and Archives website.  From here you can familiarize yourself with the different selections.  Sorry but you are going to have to study it carefully so go slowly.

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/land/Pages/land-records.aspx

I visited this archive in 2012 and you can find my post about that experience on this blog. “Ottawa: Libraries and Archives Canada!,” June 12, 2012.

4.  Ancestry.com has under Quebec an index of the Land Grants: Quebec, Canada Land Grants 1763-1890.  This index is a little easier to search and is like the information in No. 1 and 2 above. You can search on all names and not be restricted to a section of the alphabet.  I do not know what Ancestry for Canada has but I assume it is the same?

Original data: Robert Dunn and Derek Hopkins, comp. Alphabetical Index to the Land Grants by the Crown in the province of Quebec from 1763 to 31st December 1890. Pointe Claire, Quebec: Quebec Family History Society, 2005.

The original records and microfilm copies are available at the Bibliothèque et Archives nationalies du Québec. Requests for microfilm copies should include the full reference to the book and page (found in the source citation for the record). Requests should be addressed to: Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec, 1012, avenue du Séminaire, CP 10450, Sainte-Foy, QC, G1V 4N1. 

Okay, I get it Sainte-Foy is part of Quebec City, no wonder I am confused for this is still a slight difference in the address for the BAnQ Quebec City.

Here is the address Danny gave me for the documents he was seeking for land.

A. par courier: Direction des registres et de la certification

Registre des lettres patnetes foncieres 1 rue Notre-Dame Est, bureau 7.07, Montreal, Quebec H2Y 186.  Montreal: 514 864-5764, Quebec 418 528-5764.  If you speak French you might be able to figure this out.

Example in the written alpha list: In searching for Archibald McDonell in the Ancestry index, I find one of his patents: Name, location Chichester, Pontiac, Acres 86, Letters Patent Date: 1 Sep 1868. The source citation below reads Letters Patent Book, 8, pg. 103, County Index Vol. 1, page 828. 

5.  The BAnQ in Montreal at 535 Viger Street (Old Montreal) has indexes to, and copies of land petitions which are also available on microfilm at their archive centres (Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec: www.banq.qc.ca.)  Be prepared for the website to be in French.  I have my translator on so it moves to English. I visited the BAnQ briefly and wish I had stayed longer.  It is a wonderful archive.

In finding what is where at the BAnQ I would go to the Pistard search. This is under the Genealogy section of the website.  You go to the website click on Collections, then choose Genealogie and it takes you to two catalogue searches.  You can use the advanced to narrow things down.

My post on my visit to the BAnQ in Montreal: “Quebec Wanderings: Montreal and the BAnQ,” October 4, 2014.  I should have dallied but maybe I will go back?

In the next posts I will share what Land Petitions I have.


The Pontiac Archives, Shawville, Quebec – One more Time!

June 14, 2012

Another view of the water tower – Timmy’s is everywhere

I began my day driving through Renfrew for it was time to head up to Pembroke after I finished up with the Pontiac Archives.  I wanted to explore the Quebec side of the Ottawa River on my way up north.

Renfrew’s Clock Tower – City Hall

I was now familiar with Bruce Road which stops at the light right by the Rocky Mountain House in downtown Renfrew.  I decided to end my stay in Renfrew by having breakfast there.  I had dinner the night of my tour of Allumette Island, Chichester and Sheen.  It has all knotty wood paneling inside.  Someone had placed figurines on the chandelier in the middle of the dining room area. I thought that was funny.  It was very homey and the food was good:  http://www.therockymountainhouse.com/ 

Storyland Road was not to hard to find and I was at the Portage Du Fort bridge:

More of the bridge to Portage Du Fort

The dam and power structures – Portage Du Fort

The drive to Shawville is lovely. 

One of many farms near Shawville

I was back at the Pontiac Archives and dug into the genealogies, this time focusing on collateral lines:  Poupore, LaCour/LeCour/Tebeau/Record/Ricard, Williams, Moor/Moore, Perrault, Leahy, Downey, Malone, Murphy, Burns, McPherson, Welch/Walsh, Frazer, Kennedy, Butler, Ryan, Ferguson, Sauvé and others.  These are the families that married into my great-grandparents Archie and Mary McDonell’s siblings families.  There was not as much information as I had hoped and not as far back in time that I had wanted.  I was looking at 1850 to 1901.

The Pontiac Archives is in Shawville which locates it further south in Pontiac and I have noticed that there is a concentration of documentation, histories and more from Fort Coulonge to Gatineau.  For some reason the upper Pontiac is less emphasized.  Why is that?

A REQUEST:  If you have ancestors who settled in Pontiac Counties please take a few minutes and print off or create a file that you can attached and send to the Pontiac Archives via their email or by mail.  Here again is their link:  http://www.pontiacarchives.org/  Don’t think that the Internet is the only way to spread the news about your family.  People are so impacted with information and lack of time they don’t always have that choice to be on the internet all the time or they don’t have that kind of access due to money concerns. 

Please send and or give them your family histories, I did!

I finished up at the Pontiac Archives and said my thanks you and goodbyes!  I was glad I had visited.

There was another restaurant and pub to the left of the library as you exit the front door that had a deck. It was on Rue Main.  I decided to try that for a different experience and it was great. Entering it through their door was a little odd. I cannot remember the name and I can’t find it online.  It had comfort food as well as a bar in the middle of the very long room.  I had worried about food but I can guarantee you will be able to get a good meal in Shawville. 

Here are a few more photographs of Shawville for your enjoyment.

Hotel de Ville – Shawville

After quieting my tummy, I headed up Hwy 148 (301).  This highway is wonderful.  It is a two lane road but it is in great condition.  I had no problems with driving along it.  Now that I know this, I can advise that if you want to stay somewhere other than Renfrew and drive to Shawville to do research at the Pontiac Archives you can do so without a problem.  The distance and weather might be a factor but the road is great.  Crossing the Ottawa can be done at Waltham, Portage Du Fort and at Qyugon you can take a ferry, otherwise you do have to come from Gatineau northwest or south from Waltham.  Hwy 148 follows the Ottawa River and if I had more time I would have done the whole tour.  Hwy 148 seems to end when it meets Hwy 40 near Pembroke after crossing Allumette Island.

Try this link for a very interesting information about road trips for the Outaouais area – the Quebec side.  You will have to do a little digging to find the various specific road trips for Outaouais:  http://outaouais.quebecheritageweb.com/attractions-and-tours  They are an online magazine of articles formation about the history of the towns, sites and more along the Ottawa (Outaouais) River and some photos.  I was very happy to find this website. 

Because of the time constraints I headed up to Campbell’s Bay to go to the Palais de Justice for Pontiac County (County courthouse).  It was open in the morning 9-12 and afternoon from 1-4 pm M-F and I had to get there quickly.  I figured I could double back to tour a little of Calumet Island after my visit to the Palais.  This website has the information about Quebec’s courts:  http://www.justice.gouv.qc.ca/francais/joindre/palais/cartes/campb-carte.htm

Palais de Justice, Campbell’s Bay – Rue John

My goal was to obtain printouts of the land lots that I had identified for several of my ancestors:  Archie, John his brother, and others that I suspected of being related. 

It was a little confusing to figure out which room to go to because I was finally hit with French as the only language. As you enter the building on your left there is sign that has the word “Ligne” in it and that is where I went to get these printouts.

The location board in the Palais de Justice Campbell’s Bay

The office were you obtain the land lot histories

The clerk was very nice and of course she started speaking in French till she realized I did not.  I had taken the time to write everything down so that she could just use my list.  We settled on the price of $4.00 for each printout and I asked for several.  She headed out instructing me to wait in the lobby and disappeared for about 15 minutes.  She came back with a stack and told me the last one didn’t exist.  My lousy handwriting made it look like another number so I corrected that and she kindly obtained the copy for me and didn’t charge me. 

Sigh!  This is where I made a big mistake.  I did not review the papers at that time.  I paid my money and asked her about accessing these documents and she said that I could do so online because that was were all the land records were.  It was not till much later that I studied them only to find out that they went back and stopped at early 1900.  I had thought I would get the lot history all the way back to the beginning circa 1850.  So they were all 1900 and to the present and only one showed me anything of value.  I was very disappointed and mostly frustrated.  I was hoping it would give me some information about Archibald’s early years. 

DO NOT DO WHAT I DID!  CHECK THE PRINTOUTS before you leave.  I am told that there was a fire in Hull in 1900 and that destroyed things?  I do not know how this affected the records for Pontiac County?  The online source for the land records may not go back far enough.  I don’t know?  I am still trying to figure out Quebec land records.  More on this topic in a later post. 

I did learn and confirm that the land records printouts are at this location or  all are online at the link given below.  I can access them even though I am a USA citizen.  She told me that they charge like a $1.00 so you do have to use a credit card to sign up to use the online system, but it is only for verification.  That was encouraging.  I knew about this website but hesitated to sign up.  I think I will take the plunge when I get home and see what I find.

I have tried to type this exactly as it was written on the summary sheet she gave to me. 

Pour toute information supplémentair, communiquez avec:

Service d’assistance â la clientéle de Foncier Québec: lundi, mardi, jeudi et vendredi, de 8h30 à 16h30 (mercredi de 10h à 16h30)  Téléphone: (418) 643-3582 Région de la Capital-Nationale 1-866-226-0977 Sans frais au Québec, en Ontario et au Nouveau-Brunswick.  Couriel: assistance.clientele@mrnf.foncierquebec.gouv.qc.ca

The clerk also gave me this url to go to. 

https://www.registrefoncier.gouv.qc.ca/Sirf/Script/14_06_01-02/pf_14_06_01_reglr.asp

The area along Rue Front in Campbell’s Bay has a parking lot right on the Ottawa River.  Actually I think that was what was distracting me and I was becoming very tired.  I love rivers and the Ottawa is as fascinating as others I have seen and especially because it was a big part of my great parents Archie and Mary McDonell’s lives and my grandfather Ronald’s, he grew up along its shores. 

I pulled my car into this parking area on Rue Front  and dallied enjoying the view. 

The Ottawa (Outaouais) River looking north

The Ottawa River (Outaouais) looking toward Calumet Island

There was a church across the street on Rue Front:

A Church in Campbell’s Bay – Rue Front Street


Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 32 other followers

%d bloggers like this: